Planting Seeds

In the Season 3 opener of Nourish, host Sarah Riedl sits down with Lisa Chou and Marita Bujold to learn about their conversation with Minnesota Representative Kaohly Her. They discuss the road that led Representative Her to run for office, from immigrating to the US as a child to helping other parents in her kids' school get politically active. Agriculture has always been something near and dear to Representative Her as a Hmong immigrant, making her a natural fit to co-author the Headwaters Community Food and Water Bill (HF1332 / SF1580). They also discuss the many committees that Representative Her sits on, as well as the difficulties of working in the split legislature landscape of Minnesota.

For more information on all of the work that Representative Her is doing, you can visit her website, or send an email at rep.kaohly.her@house.mn.

Find the full transcript here.

Support the show (https://mn350action.org/become-a-member/?sourceid=1021363)

Transcript

Sarah Riedl  1:04  

Hello, and welcome to Season 3 of Nourish by MN350. I'm your host Sarah Riedl, Communications Manager at MN350 and MN350 Action. We're a climate justice organization working toward a just transition to a climate resilient future across Minnesota, the homeland of the Dakhota and Anishinaabeg. I'm joined today by Lisa Chou, MN350’s Food Systems Organizer, and Marita Bujold, an MN350 volunteer and the architect of the Headwaters Community Food and Water Bill, to bring us a new conversation with Minnesota State Representative Kaohly Vang Her, a legislator who is fighting for more equitable policies in Minnesota, including solutions for our food system.

Lisa Chou  1:49  

Thanks, Sarah. I'm happy to be here. Super excited about today's topic. And I also want to acknowledge that I'm calling from Chicago, which is the original homelands of the Potawatomi, Ojibwa and Odawa tribes.

Marita Bujold  2:00  

And I'm very glad to be here too. Representative Vang Her is my representative, and it's been a real privilege to get to know her.

Sarah Riedl  2:08  

Thank you, Lisa and Marita! Looking forward to diving in here. So here at MN350, we are supporting a piece of legislation called the Headwaters Community Food and Water Bill, which would provide the funding and infrastructure for a resilient, regenerative and inclusive food economy. If you've been listening for a while, you might know that we've already done a few episodes centered on the Headwaters Bill starting with Episode 6 of our very first season, where we first introduced the bill to our audience, followed by “For Bees and For People.” And then “Place-Based Food” and “A Healing Path,” both of which were in season 2. But for those who aren't familiar with a bill yet, before we get too far into this episode, Marita, I'm wondering if you could give us a quick overview of what's in the bill.

Marita Bujold  2:55  

So the key thing to know about this bill is that it begins by acknowledging our fundamental relationship with nature. And that is that we have an interdependent relationship with nature. So everything else in the bill follows from that. What we have right now is a lot of, well, a number of local food initiatives that really are trying to offer people opportunities to live sustainably and to produce and preserve, cook food locally, but there's no infrastructure for that economy. This bill provides the infrastructure, not only for those initiatives, but also to create something statewide that is coordinated, locally adapted, and as a source to table model would allow our communities to live sustainably, with a system that's designed specifically for health and well being to really nurture that connection between people and nature in a way that is strategic and really pragmatic.

Sarah Riedl  4:18  

Thank you, Marita. In our previous episodes, we have featured real world leaders at the community level, the people that are out there already creating these local food systems that you described. And today's show is our opportunity to feature the leaders who make legislation like the Headwaters Bill a reality.

Kaohly Her  4:36  

I'm State Representative Kaohly Vang Her. I am the state representative in district 64A in St. Paul. 

Lisa Chou  4:43  

We had such a great conversation with Representative Her. She was first elected in 2018 and is serving her second term in the Minnesota House of Representatives. She's a refugee has worked in the private sector in investment and finance was even a stay at home mom for six years and with a background like that she's really able to understand the working class issues and solutions that marginalized communities need. So in our discussion with her, she shared about her journey into politics, how she fights to put equity at the center of all the solutions she's supporting, and ways that we can take action, this next legislative session to make our voices heard with our own legislators about issues we care about, including the Headwaters Bill.

Marita Bujold  5:23  

I was really struck, listening to Representative Her answer questions about how she decided to become politically active, that it really started with being a parent, and how in doing that job, she learned a great deal about the experience of other parents, specifically, other Hmong parents, a third of the student population in that district are from Hmong families. And it's that experience really helped her decide that there were issues that were not being addressed.

Lisa Chou  6:13  

Yeah, and it's so great to have Representative Her supportive of this bill and a lot of other great legislators. So it was really great to have to be able to sit down with her and hear about why she supports that. But also just her background, and better understanding where she comes from, and how her values line up with values that we're proposing and Headwaters Bill.

Sarah Riedl (re-record)

Sounds interesting. Let’s listen to her story.

Kaohly Her  6:36  

The truth is that I never really thought about running for office. So I came to this country as a refugee. I was four years old when I came to the United States, and my family was really focused on just surviving. So when you're busy surviving, you don't often get to think about what are the things that you would like to do? What are the things you think might be important to do? What are the kinds of legacies that you want to leave behind? You're, you're not thinking of those things, you're just wondering, like, when's your next meal coming? Are you going to be able to get to your job? Are your kids going to be safe? That is literally what you're thinking about, as refugees coming to a new country. And so I was always really focused on trying to do really well, so I could take care of myself, so that my family wouldn't have to take care of me. And really, what was really pivotal for me was that there was a period of my life after I'd been working in the private sector for, you know, 15 years, I worked in investments in finance. And I decided that I wanted to be a stay at home mom, because there's no greater good that I can do in this world, then, you know, raise children who are productive citizens. And so I quit my job, and I stayed home with them. And I thought to myself: How will I ever teach my children who are not facing any adversities, who's not who are not facing poverty, who are not facing issues that I had to in order to survive and to do well for myself? How will I ever teach them to follow their dreams, and to do what they may want to in this life, for themselves. And when I realized that if I didn't know that for myself, how will I ever know that for my children. And so that is when I started actually doing a lot of work around education and what I was seeing happening with the children of color in our St. Paul school district, because of what I was seeing happening with my own children.My children are constantly getting placed into English language learner classes, and asked to test out when they only speak English as their only language. And so it was really understanding how I needed to show up every single day for my children, that I realized that I couldn't just show up for my kids, I had to show up for every child whose parents couldn't be there to advocate for them, because those parents were working two jobs. Or those parents had language barriers. Or those parents just didn't have the privilege of time and resources. And so I really started to think about, what does it mean for me to fight for everyone else's children? And that's kind of how I got into politics. And it was just a couple years after that, that I started thinking, what does it mean for me to be involved in more than just my kids' school? And I started advocating for parents, and started taking parents to the polls, and understanding how education is influence in politics. And I never looked back. So that's sort of what led me to this place. And I really do love representing this particular district, because my district often reminds me that they have more environmentalists per square mile than any other district. And so the district really allows me to work really hard on not just looking at environmental issues and issues around climate, but also looking at an equity lens. And that really matters to my constituents. And to me, because of how I choose to do this work, and so that's sort of why I am in my district.

But I do want to say that the reason why, though, doing work from from a justice lens really matters to me, is because when I think about what has happened in my life, that it wasn't enough that we were having food, having shelter, that we were having access to education, it was at the quality of those things and who gets the resources and who's at the table making these decisions, that made me realize that we have to do this work with an equity lens. We talk about climate and who we're going to give access to when it comes to electric cars, or the grid, or bike paths, that we need to be able to do these things with the lens of equity. Because our children need to just not have bike routes, we actually need to be able to create bike routes that take somebody from their low income housing community, to the gas station where they work. And when we think about building bike paths, we have to think about it from an equity lens. When we think about putting a grid together around electric vehicles, we have to think about it with an equity lens. And that's why the work that I do and how I do my work really matters to me. That was a lot. Sorry.

Marita Bujold  10:30  

That was great.

Lisa Chou  10:32  

I loved hearing how you, the journey. You went from being a stay-at-home mom to seeing the greater impacts and influence you could have, and taking those steps to get there. So I know you serve on many committees at the state level. And some of those kind of touched on those values you talked about. You serve on the committees for Finance, and Taxes, Judiciary Finance and Civil Law - a lot of different tax ones. Can you talk about how those intersect with the values you have, and how those scale up into, like, law and other things at the state level?

Kaohly Her  11:02  

Absolutely! So I sit on committees that I think a lot of people look at as boring. It's not where all the fun happens. But you know, as somebody who studied finance, and what I have come to understand is that we can try to do as much good as we possibly can. But the only way that we can actually make the impact that we want is that we understand how money is generated in our society, who gets to have access to that money, and why certain groups are more successful at navigating that and why others are not. And it is really because of that understanding that has led me to asking for committees that I know impacts some financial aspect of the work that we do. So like in Taxes - in all of the other committees, we look at budgets and how we spend. But Taxes is the committee that we look at how we generate revenues. And this past year, I carried the Fifth Tier Bill, which was to increase taxes on our highest earners in the state of Minnesota. The original bill would have created an additional billion dollars in revenues. And it would have impacted a small percentage of Minnesotans. And so when we think about who's holding all that wealth, and those who haven't been doing well these past few years, we understand. We know that Minnesotans care for each other and that we then want to pitch in to help. We see that disproportionately those have been impacted in this pandemic. And in the spaces that we've been these past two years with the economy and how that's impacted people. We know that disproportionately black and brown and those from low income communities have been the most hurt. But people who were able to invest in the markets and doing very well and had a great deal of wealth already, those people did enormously well. And so because we know that we want to take care of each other, you should be able to help assist. And those who have had the greatest earnings, and helping those who have been impacted the most financially because of the last few years. And so those are the types of things that are really important to me. Taxes is really a great example of where we find money. But I would also say that I think about the work that I do in Housing Finance and Policy, Civil Law, Judiciary Finance and Policy - that those are the areas in which we fund court systems and our justice systems. And we know the outcomes for those who are black and brown and from a low-income community, we understand the disproportionate impact on them, which means we have to fund those court systems in a way that really understands the deep disparities that lie within our systems. When we look at housing - housing, to me, sits at the intersection of every disparity that exists in in our society right now. That if a child does not have a house, that child cannot do well in school. If a family does not have a home, they cannot get jobs so they can move up socially, economically, you know. When families can't build wealth and pass it on to the next generation, those families cannot ever break the cycle of poverty and can never build intergenerational wealth. And that we have spent hundreds of years creating racist policies that really hurt black and brown people and have excluded them from participating in, in owning homes and building wealth and building assets. Which is why we have one of the greatest wealth gaps in the country, that we need to work really hard on undoing hundreds of years of racist policies that we put into place. And so these are the types of committees that I work really hard to be a part of, because I know that we cannot address the future of doing well, Minnesotans doing well, if we will not address the past. So those committees, those are why they matter to me, and they're very intentional on my part.

Lisa Chou  14:32  

There was so much great stuff said there. And it's so interesting to see the connections between Representative Her’s values about coming from a refugee family, fighting for good education for all the kids in her community, and really understanding the disproportionate impacts of the pandemic on small businesses and connecting all of that to see how her influence in the financial and tax committees she's in, and how she can use that power to improve Minnesota's financial system to be more equitable, and really just connecting that to how well she understands these issues.

Sarah Riedl  15:04  

Yeah, just to circle back to one of the first things Representative Her said, which was that a lot of people might see these committees as boring. But you know, we like to say that the Headwaters Bill would put our money where our mouths are. Instead of putting our public money, our tax dollars, into the industrial food system, which is causing all of this harm to our climate and to our communities. The Headwaters Bill would put that money into the type of food system that could repair those harms. And those committees, that Representative Her was talking about, that's the place where those decisions are being made. The members of those committees have the power to say, Let's spend our money on the things that reflect our values. And that's, that's not boring. That's a really powerful position to be in. And Representative Her clearly understands that. And we are so lucky to have her as the Chief Author.

Marita Bujold  16:00  

Of course, she is my Representative. And Senator Murphy is the Senator that represents our district. So when she was running for office, I actually had a chance to speak with her. And actually, a lot of what we spoke about the Hmong culture, and her desire for a food system that would support the kinds of foods and health and well being that her community really wanted. And then in September 2019, I was invited to introduce the Headwaters Bill at a convening of the National Caucus of Environmental Legislators in Memphis, and the representatives there were all people who represented states along the Mississippi River. And attending the conference really offered an opportunity then to talk with Representative Her, as well as her colleagues, Samantha Vang, Jay Xiong, and of course, Fue Lee, who at the time was the bill's chief author. The story that I learned from conversations with Representative Her, really are stories that I think we can all recognize that there's these are really common, but also we find that the values that that she talked about, and the needs for a really sustainable, just food economy, are something that I think people really do care about. It's a question of, can we actually, as Sarah said, put our money where our mouth is, and invest in that. You know, the path forward is clear.

Sarah (re-record)

Absolutely. Let’s hear more from your interview.

Kaohly Her  17:46  

Being a co-author of this bill is really important to me. I actually first learned of the bill, when Rep. Lee was the chief author of this bill. And we were at an NCEL, National Caucus of Environmental Legislators. And when I learned that Marita was actually my constituent, and I thought, why aren’t I carrying this bill? And it matters to me because, you know, Hmong people are people who have always lived off the land in every country that we have lived in. We have always been farmers. This is the first country in which we've had the privilege of being able to do something else besides farming. Because in every other country, we had been a part of, we were ethnic groups that were not considered citizens, which meant we couldn't own land, we couldn't go to school - we couldn't, there was so much that we didn't have access to. In America, you know, we are still a really important part of the farm and the agriculture business here in the state of Minnesota. And so when I saw this bill, I thought, There is nothing more important for me than to fight for something that continues to connect people to their land, and continues to connect people to their water. And also understanding that when we lose that connection, we really lose our identity and who we are and, and the more removed we are from food, the easier it is for us to remove ourselves from understanding the impact it has on the environment, and on people and on animals and everything else that leads us to ways in which we can distance ourselves from the climate issues and also on the environmental issues that we are creating ourselves far into the future. And so that's why it was really important for me to be a part of this work, because I think it is really critical. If we're going to solve our climate crisis and climate issues, we need to show people and connect them back to food and our environment and how we are an important part of that.

Lisa Chou  19:30  

That makes so much sense. And we have so much to learn from the communities that are still so connected to their food systems. As a country that's become so disconnected.

Kaohly Her  19:38  

Before I was a legislator, my husband was working in Germany, and we ended up staying there for long periods of time with him. And I realized that in European communities, they were so much closer to their food source. And they were also much more vigilant. And so it really helped me understand that when people understood where their food was coming from, they could protect that food better, and that when there were there were very few steps in between where the food was produced to when it got to the table, that it made it very easy for people to understand their connection, and how they're a part of the climate and the environment and the food system, and all of how those things are connected together. And it was really in watching and understanding that that made me realize that in America, we have no concept of where our food comes from, and the importance of knowing that. And that we have no idea how to protect our food systems because of that lack of knowledge. And that also is an important part of why doing this type of work really matters to me. For me, understanding that those who are most hurt by not understanding this process are actually people who are black and brown from low income communities. Because then you have the least ability to realize that you have the least nutritious food, and you are then buying the least expensive food. But it actually isn't - it's costing greatly in your health. And so those who are disproportionately affected are those who are black, brown, and from low income communities. That, to me, is really critical if we're going to solve this health crisis, and also our food crisis.

Lisa Chou  21:07  

Those overlapping layers of oppression and power, and all of that in how we think about food in our communities, and especially at a national economic level are all just so intertwined.

Sarah Riedl  21:33  

Hi, welcome back! Lisa, before the break, Representative Her was describing the simplicity of the food system that she experienced in Europe, and the transparency, how it was hard not to know where your food was coming from. And I can't help but compare that to the opacity of the industrial food chain, where we barely know what all the ingredients are in our food, much less where they came from or what their impact might be. So it seems like we have a pretty long way to go to get to what she was describing.

Lisa Chou  22:09  

I definitely agree that it can sometimes seem like we'd have a long way to go. And I asked Representative Her about this too, and some of the challenges that she sees in her role as a legislator. But the more I learn about the power she has, the power we have as eaters in our food system, the more that some of these solutions seem possible. But even she was asking some of these questions about how big this challenge seems.

Marita Bujold  22:33  

I was really intrigued by her comment about narrative, because it seemed to me that she was suggesting that the real issue here is taking back the narrative on who gets to tell the story. And I can see how important that is, because so often we talk about how we need to support our farmers, and then the conversation kind of ends there. We don't talk about what that really means. What is it? How do we support our farmers, and if you know, we're facing a climate challenge, we aren't producing food that we actually eat, then that doesn't seem like we're supporting the farmers to do something that really isn't benefiting them or us.

Sarah

Exactly. Let’s take a listen.

Kaohly Her  23:18  

I went out and, and visited a corn production. I've been out to Farm Fest to understand, you know who our farmers are. And I find that we've been given this false narrative. The way that the conversation has been framed, to make it very political, is that if I'm fighting for the environment, and I'm fighting for small growers, that means that I don't care about, you know, the corn producer. The truth is I'm not. If somebody is using sustainable practices, practices that really take into consideration our environment, and the people that it’s impacting; when we're not, you know, producing for huge systems in which we're exporting all of these things that have nothing to do with like feeding people. And it goes into this huge Agri-system. And it's been really interesting for me to work with whom we consider our smaller farmers, but still who are producing large amounts of corn or soybean or whatever that might be. And so I'm trying to just figure out how to have this conversation in which we don't let these large Agri-businesses create the narrative for all of us to operate within, to tell us who we're fighting and who we are not, and that we have to work really hard to reshaping that narrative. Because our system in Minnesota, we have a large array of people from individual farmers who are doing farmers’ markets who don't even own the land - we have a whole different issue when it comes to equity, and it comes to work around our environment, and our climate and our food systems, when it comes to looking at somebody who actually is a part of this system, but has never had the ability to own the land that they're working on, and will never get themselves out of that place in which they can actually build a life from doing that, all right?

But I do want to just make sure that I really reinforce this, that we have to take back the narrative of who gets to tell this story. We have to decide where we're working within that spectrum. And then we have to then figure out how we're going to move the agenda of this forward instead of letting other people divide us in this work. Because truthfully, there's more that connects all of us than divides us when it comes to this work.

Lisa Chou  25:29  

Yeah, I think that narrative, and the social and cultural views held within all our different groups, are a big part of the forces that keep us locked in the path we’re on. Can you touch on any of the economic forces that keep us this way? Sometimes the kind of big farmers who are monoculture farmers are really stuck with like the equipment and infrastructure and the business plans, they have to keep producing what they're producing. And even if they want to try to transition off, there's so many barriers for those who want to change how they're operating to change that. 

Kaohly Her  26:04  

I think that that's part of the struggles that we're in right? Like, it’s the economies of scale, right? We know that farming is a really capital-heavy type of industry. That like, a farm that has to invest in a combine, you have to invest in that same combine whether you're a really tiny farm, or you have a giant farm. So and the cost of it is the same to those farmers and it is really challenging when a farmer wants to change the way they do their work. They're very much bounded, when I hear about farmers, who can't collect their own seeds, right, that they have to keep buying seeds. The large companies that own the seeds, and own the production of it, that really control what happens right to the farmers. But a farmer's livelihood is also tied to those people. And to shift from that they're going to need support from us, you know? And to also reinvest in themselves in ways that are that they can be more sustainable in their practices. Like how do we come in to really support the changes of this happening. And this is why Marita and my bill is so important, right? It gives people a new way. When you're stuck in a system, you don't even know now there's a different way for you to do something, and to give someone a new framework of how they can operate - that is really important. I think that that's why this bill is so hard, is because the concept is so simple, right? This whole new food web system - it is literally going back to how we've always done things, you know, a long time ago. But that concept is so foreign to people, and when we talk about this to them, it seems so big to them. And so to re-teach us as a society to understand web and food systems, it's been an incredible challenge in itself. And I think that that's why we need to help people re-envision what this can look like. And that's why this type of bill is really important. Because when I bring something like this, and I tell a farmer, like they like great, that's really wonderful. But in their minds, they can't even figure out how to change the production of where they are now, back to the way it used to be, and how to make that viable for them. And so, you know, I think that that's part of our system, part of our problem is to re-educate ourselves and how this can be, but also to show people that there is a new way of doing this. And that the challenge of not then looking at the economies of scale and saying this is the only way we can do that. That's not true. We just have to decide as a society that we're going to value a different way of production, and we're going to price that in a way that values those that were a part of production.

Marita Bujold  28:27  

Oh, when I hear you say what you're saying about re-envisioning and about a farmer, for instance, seeing that path to something different - this bill is all about making that pathway visible. But I was reminded how so much of what our conventional farmers do, is grounded in what started decades ago where the landscapes were just transformed. We had hedgerows, we had small scale farms, we had diversity and all of those things that allowed healthy pollinators, allowed families to grow real food and actually deliver it. And so for a conventional farmer, whatever size their farm is to say, “I want to be part of that”. This bill provides the tool to get there. So that then we have all of our landscapes contributing to sustainable living. And it's really clear from the crisis that we're in that we need to have all those landscapes making that contribution with healthy soil, healthy connections, healthy pollinator systems and the food being produced that way. So it's what you've said is just such a good reminder of what we need to do to help people who are on the land to provide them with the tools to actually be able to do this, because right now we're paying them to do something entirely different.

Lisa Chou  30:03  

Representative Her really laid out, and Marita you laid out, both the challenge and the path forward when it comes to narrative. There's a lot of challenges that exist and making change happen on like the actual farm level, but also in getting ambitious climate legislation like the Headwaters Bill passed. And one of the things that makes it really difficult is that we've got a split legislature at the state level. And as we're facing that challenge in our Headwaters Campaign here at MN350 Action, Representative Her also sees that same challenge when she's working on other progressive legislation.

Marita Bujold  30:35  

Well in the Headwaters Bill. In all legislation really, it's important to focus not just on supporting agriculture, a food system, or creating a sustainable system, but also on equity. The people and especially the people who historically have been underrepresented should be at the center of policy in order to avoid continuing to increase the inequality gap that we see today. And I think we hear that voiced very clearly from Representative Her.

Kaohly Her  31:10  

One of the great things about our state is that we are a very balanced state. And I think that that then creates a problem for us as well, right, we are the only state in the country that is a split legislature. In the house, we are DFL majority and in the Senate, we are a GOP majority. Which means that nothing that we pass out of the legislature - it can't be done without compromises made from both sides. And I think that keeps us very balanced as Minnesotans; it also really stops us sometimes from making really important progress that we need around justice and equity. And so I would say that that might be one of our biggest challenges here. And I think that the second thing is still that, because we are such good people here in Minnesota, and we try really hard to be thoughtful and to be a kind and to be inclusive, that we forget that it is that particular strive to do that, that sometimes prevents us from looking at the work that we do with an equity lens. And so, you know, because I think it's really hard for us to say we're making policy, but we actually didn't do so with a lens other than the one that we've been socialized to have as people in dominant cultures, right? And so I think that, that leads us to places in which it's very challenging to have really hard discussions around what we are trying to dismantle, and what are the systems that we do need to look at really critically, and how are the ways in which we help uphold systems that if you're not actively thinking about how those systems are being extremely oppressive or hurtful to certain people, that means that you're also been holding up those systems. And every single day, if we're not looking at ourselves, and analyzing where we are upholding these systems, even as good, well-meaning people that we will come to create policies that will perpetuate oppressive structures that we all forced everyone to operate within. And so I think that those two things are two of the things that I struggle with the most in trying to be, you know, to legislate in a state that works really hard to be balanced, and also works really hard to try to do the right things.

Lisa Chou  33:11  

You gave the perfect answer, because one of my next questions was, since you do have to work across the aisle so much, what are some opportunities for really powerful collective leadership in the House and Senate? Or some examples of where those compromises have been good for both sides?

Kaohly Her  33:27  

Yeah, well, that's hard. That's a hard question, Lisa. I think though, you know, when we think about everything from being able to pass police reform a year ago, to some of the work that we did around this past year around equity dollars, to really help support businesses that were impacted in the civil unrest, but also, those who have been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic, right, that those all required people to understand this work from an equity lens. Really required people to see that it doesn't impact people proportionally across our state of Minnesota. And so all of those things actually really required us to work really hard. We did not think that we were actually going to get police reform through. And was it as strong as we had hoped that it would be? Absolutely not. But in order for us to have actually passed something, we had to compromise immensely. And I think that's what we forget, when we work with our allies, you know. We would love to push our progressive agenda forward, but it becomes impossible in a space that we're navigating - where we are. And that means that we can pass something that gives us a place to start. I think that even with that compromise, there is a great deal of work that can get done. I would say that our partners in whichever parts of work that they're working out whether it is on climate, or energy or police reform, or you know, in the justice system, or wherever it may be and what I always tell people is that like shouldn't be discouraged and what we see as, as progress not being made. Because what I want to say is that in the conversations that we have now will say to me who've been here a really long time during this legislative work, they say to me that we've never had the conversations that we're having right now ever. The conversations we're having around race and around gender and around equity, that we've never had conversations with this type of seriousness, and with this goal to actually do something with it. That, you know, prior to three, four years ago, until we had such a large POCI, which is our People of Color and Indigenous Caucus, that these conversations were not being had, for the first time in these last few years, that each committee has an equity goal in their budget, and in their targets, that when Representative Chair Lee was looking at his Capital Investment budget, he is looking at, how does he do his work through equity lens? And what are the equity pieces of his budget? You know, when Chair Lillie is looking at his Legacy Committee, he's doing the exact same thing. Not until this point ever, was there ever dollars set aside for equity work. And so I think that these are the things that our partners do not see. But for them to know that like we are pushing and working together and continue to look at this work from a collective, and how we all partner together, not just in a specific area, but like how do we, how do we show the intersectionality of all our work? And why is that important? The fact that we talk about intersectionality at the legislature, and it's never happened prior to these last few years? And so I think that we should be very hopeful. And that the conversations that are difficult, they are being had. And does that mean we're going to produce results right away? Probably not. But that means that we're at least paving the road for how we're going to get there. And we are planting seeds in people's minds and getting to think and look at issues in a different way than they've ever done before. And to me that is huge, if we want to make structural and systemic change, it is huge for people to be able to see it in that way.

Welcome back, one of the last things that Representative Her said she was talking about planting seeds. So let's plant some seeds here. Lisa, what are some actions we can talk about here as as listeners, while we're hearing Representative Her’s story? How can we get involved?

Lisa Chou  38:22  

There are so many ways and I feel super energized by the way she told her story at the end and like giving us that really strong piece of hope of how we can move forward. So as I mentioned at the top of the episode, we're coming right up into the 2022 legislative session. And with that in mind, now is the critical time to reach out to your legislators to make sure that they know what issues are important to you. And I was able to ask Representative Her what her thoughts are on the best way to make sure that your voices are heard, and representatives are actually representing us and the issues that mattered to us.

Kaohly Her  38:56  

I would say that was really important for me when someone comes to me and wants me to support an issue, is if they can show me why this work is important to my constituents specifically. And I think that's the problem here is that, that when we talk about why we can't get support for a certain issue or or a certain bill is because those who are opposed to it do not have any constituents that are saying this is really important to me. And what is very interesting to me is that we have a lot of support in the metro area, even though you think about agribusiness and like farming as a very rare rural Minnesota thing. And I know we want to change some of that because we're trying to give people access to land even in areas where we have a shortage of land for them to really grow and be part of that food system for themselves. And the problem is that we need to do a better job of saying to all Minnesotans that this is actually helpful for everybody. And what happened in the pandemic and our issues with supply and our issues with access to food and our issues to you know, to all of the resources that we relied on that showed was the how critical it is, for us to be able to implement something like this, for the entire state of Minnesota so that we do not have to rely so heavily on these huge supply chain and systems, which then disrupts our our ability to get access to produce and to products and services, right. And so I think that for us to figure out how to create a network of people that are across the state of Minnesota, so that we can help people who are constituents in districts and which do not feel like this type of bill is necessary and needed for them. And the more we can have those partners work with us, and to reach out to those state representatives who are opposed to this type of a bill. And they're saying that we are against farmers, if we want to change the systems, that the more they get to hear from their constituents, the easier it is going to be for them to understand that this actually helps our system not denigrates it. So I think that, to me, it's always a really critical point to say, not just work on where we have the support for this for bills and language that we care about, how do we reach out across the state of Minnesota to make sure that everyone understands why this should be important to them. And then they reach out to their state representatives, who have not necessarily been supportive of these types of bills. Because when they hear from their constituents, they listen, and when they hear from me or they hear from you, and you don't live in that district, they don't even think twice about it. So I think that that's where the work has to be done, is in those spaces.

Lisa Chou  41:34  

Yeah, yeah, that's so true. Part of our the newer strategy for the Headwaters campaign that we've been focusing on for the last few months is really targeting to senate districts around the Rochester area to like connect the Ag focus, have kind of a more, slightly further broader Minnesota audience to these issues, because it's true that MN350 has a very urban base of supporters and growing it to be rural Minnesota, is really important in like connecting everyone's values to these kinds of narratives and these kinds of actions. So that's really true. Our outreach in that Rochester area is part of MN350's goal of getting out more climate voters across the state for the ultimate goal of flipping the Senate because we have to do that if we want any kind of progressive legislation in the next decade.

Kaohly Her

That's right.

Lisa Chou

For like MN350 supporters who are in broader Minnesota, what are the best ways to influence their legislators? Do people listen most to like emails and phone calls, or like meetings that their legislators host?

Kaohly Her  42:38  

We all read our emails and, you know, letters that are sent to us. But I would say that for those legislators in these different areas, to see the active work, right, so to really be intentional about, you know, tweeting, and social media and showing that it's not just somebody saying this matters to me, but there's actual campaigns working on these issues, right. And that there are actually people out and about, and like trying to educate or fighting for our climate, our food system in ways in which, you know, that is very visible. I think that the more people realize how much this movement is actually taking off, I think that the harder it is to ignore the work that has been done. So I think that'd be really coordinated in just the social media, to ensure visibility, the work is really important. And that's in addition to writing emails and letters to your legislators, because they will listen and they do respond to those as well. I may not necessarily respond if somebody tweets at me, because it's always that's not a very productive platform to have discussions with people. But it brings my visibility, it brings my awareness up when I see you know, the campaigns that are happening and movements and how they move forward. But also these letters, we always do our best to respond to constituents.

Lisa Chou  43:55  

Yeah, I think it's, it's really helpful to hear your view about that and to feel more encouraged to reach out to the legislator, if it's not something they've done before, or if they're always unsure how impactful it is. But that's really reassuring. One last question, how can people listening to our podcast, support your work as a legislator and support more legislators like you who are more in that progressive area, or from working class or immigrant communities and really just like in touch with the communities that we need to help the most? 

Kaohly Her  44:21  

Oh, gosh, no, I never think about how other people can help me in this work. Because I always feel like my job is to help everybody and to lift up their voices and to fight really hard for those who don't always have a seat at the table. I think that now that the legislature actually does have such diverse legislators working on really big issues, I think that - and these are like the little things that I don't know if people really know about - but there are so many caucuses within our legislature. So there's the POCI Caucus who works on POCI issues, and so even if it's not in our district, you know. Like there's the Minnesota Asian Pacific caucus, there's the Black Caucus, there's, you know, the Climate Caucus, there's all of these different caucuses that exist to do work outside of just our body of work. And so like one year, the MAP Caucus, the Minnesota Asia Pacific Caucus, which is comprised of Representative Lee, Tou Xiong, Jay Xiong, Representative Samantha Vang and myself, and Senator Her, we actually traveled to Rochester. And we did talk to our community members that they were talking about farming as well. And we had no idea that they didn't know that we'd pass certain laws, that should give them some support that they were looking for. And so I think that we just need to figure out for people if they want to know more about how they can support our work that is happening. And this is, again, like unhelpful part about systems and institutions. People who don't know how to navigate and can't get to the people that they need to, to get to the resources that they want. Right. So how do we empower and teach regular citizens to understand all of these different caucuses? And who's doing work? And who's going where, and how we can just sort of build on each other's work instead of everybody working in these little silos? Right. And so like, I think that that is the greatest way for us to work together. And for people who are listening and people who are interested in this work, is how do we get you the information you need to understand the different caucuses that are at work here? And how can you plug yourself into this caucus work and I know Marita has done a great job in going to the Climate Caucus and bringing this bill very early to them. But again, there are you know, like, there are Somali farmers, they are Hmong farmers, there are groups that we're working on within these different caucuses that we actually can bring in and be a part of this movement and be a part of this work. How do we just do a better job of that, and it helps when our people who are part of this movement sort of connect themselves in these different places. And then continue to sort of pull this all together so that we don't lose sight that we're working on the same issues, I think, and that's asking a lot of people, but that will really hold legislators accountable. And then to really understand, like, even something like the Civility Caucus, right, that includes Republicans and Democrats, what are the things that really are non partisan? Like me, people's food should not be a partisan issue. How do we learn to have these conversations and go to somebody like the Civility Caucus and say, We want you guys to understand why food is so important, and why having a distinct system is so important. It's not partisan. And then to get the Civility Caucus on board - what does it take to do something like that, you know? And so, I think that those are really nuanced ways of trying to navigate the systems in which other people have not. But I think it would be great if we could figure out a way to do it. So then it puts the power back into the people.

Lisa Chou  47:42  

Yeah, I think that's something new to me, too, is realizing how many caucuses there are, or like using those as a tool to gain more leverage in different issues. So I've learned a lot from this talk today. So thanks so much for talking with us. Hopefully, listeners who hear about this, get really motivated to reach out to the legislators about the issues they care about.

Kaohly Her  48:04  

I really appreciate all of you for having this conversation. Because I think it is a very, it's really difficult when I talk to people about this particular bill. And what we're trying to do is really, really difficult for people to understand. And so I think that the more that we can make this easier for people to digest, we're really understanding what it means to them personally, I think that will help us in the movement.

Lisa Chou  48:28  

There were so many great actions and tips to get involved that Representative her shared just to reiterate those caucuses she mentioned the POCI caucus is the People of Color and Indigenous caucus, the Minnesota Asian Pacific MAP caucus, but also the Black Caucus Climate Caucus, Civility Caucus are caucuses I even need to learn more about and better understand their influence. But those are great ways to learn more and great ways to also promote the issues we care about.

Sarah Riedl  48:58  

So aside from learning more about the caucuses, and the type of power that's involved there, getting involved and understanding how they work, there are a few other things our listeners can do to support the Headwaters Bill. Please visit MN350action.org/headwaters and there you will find a bunch of different ways that you can get involved that you can take action on behalf of the Headwaters Bill, starting by signing the pledge of support if you haven't done that already. And you can also check on that website whether or not your legislators support the bill. And we have a tool there that will help you contact them if it's your first time reaching out to your representatives or senators. You can reach out and thank them if they're already a supporter or an author on the bill or you can reach out and ask them to become an author if they're not yet and you'll find that list of legislators again MN350action.org/Headwaters. And for anybody who's interested in learning more about Representative Her and the work she's doing, we will have links in the show notes.

All right, that is our show today. So I want to once again thank you, Lisa Chou and Marita Bujold, for being here with me today and for facilitating this conversation with Representative Her. 

Lisa Chou  50:10  

Yeah, it was a pleasure being here.

Marita Bujold  50:12  

I appreciate it being here. Thank you.

Sarah Riedl  50:14  

And we appreciate you bringing us this conversation. And thank you once again to Minnesota State Representative Kaohly Vang Her for meeting with us and giving us this insight into how the legislature works and the narrative that we need to think about when we're talking about changes to our food system. If you enjoyed listening to our show today and you would like to support the work of MN350s podcast team, visit support this show link at the bottom of the episodes description wherever you listen. Thanks for listening.

Nourish by MN350 is a production of MN350’s Food Systems team. We are changing the way people think about food production, distribution and consumption practices in the context of rapid climate change. This series is made possible by the hard work and passion of a group of dedicated volunteers.

The producer for this episode is Ben Herrera.

This episode was written by Lisa Chou and was hosted by me, Lisa Chou, and Marita Bujold

Our logo was designed by Fizz Design Collective.

Our music is by Ecuador Manta.

You can learn more at MN350 action.org/podcasts

Transcribed by https://otter.ai